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Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby yellowrose » Aug 10, 2012 3:32 pm

Ive had a few weeks of good thoughts. Ive realised other worlds ARE possible and that I am an alchemist and a shaman.

I also feel pretty scared, trapped between a rock and a hard place with the drugs and all their side effects on one side and the unknown on the other side.

I tried to reduce my Lithium back in 2007 but I had a relapse, a psychotic episode. I think it was just misdiagnosed med withdrawal. The psychiatrists currently in Manchesster are so annoying they make me want to scream, all they know is how to dole out pills.I am getting TD

Im thinking of starting by reducing my risperdal little by little but what am I going to do when the inevitable psychosis comes. I was having sessions with a therapist but I cant afford them at the momemt. My family everyone is so thick and closed minded when it comes to mental health they will just have me re-medicated.

Im frightened!
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How Do I Get Off This Junk

Postby yellowrose » Aug 10, 2012 3:41 pm

When all my family are DSM believers and my boyfriend doesnt think i can experiment with coming off drugs because he cant manage me and running the company (it is a serious problem - how do we survive financially if i am going batshit)

ive talked to my family GP but its like talking to a glass wall.

im thinkin g of trying will hall style harm reduction but how do i get past the inevitable withdrawal psychosis without being re medicated

HHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
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HELP - NEED TO GET OFF THIS JUNK

Postby yellowrose » Aug 10, 2012 3:43 pm

Cant see a way past the inevitable psychosis....
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Re: How Do I Get Off This Junk

Postby streetwisehercules » Aug 10, 2012 4:07 pm

Benzo's maybe. Clonazepam, Lorazapam and Zopliclone. Though I don't know if any GP would perscribe them long term.
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby yellowrose » Aug 10, 2012 4:45 pm

.
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby silverelf » Aug 10, 2012 4:52 pm

benzos have a whole different set of problems. would not recommend.

--

YR: I don't think psychosis is a necessary part of withdrawal from psych meds. I really don't. I think you can go slow. I think you can reduce meds to where so of the side effects might be less worrisome or absent, even if you decide not to go all the way off of them. I think you know your body/mind the best.

I get that you feel trapped and scared. I think everyone that has been on psych meds longterm feels that way when they are contemplating going off. A million questions. But what if the withdrawal is too bad? What if I can't stay sane without them? What if I make things worse? What if I have screwed up my brain forever and now I am stuck? etc etc etc.

But you can do it, and you can do it one step at a time, and you have a whole community of folks here with resources and support for you.

Pick the drug that you think is the least beneficial, or the most problematic in terms of side effects. Reduce it a TINY amount, maybe like 1 or 2%, shavings off a pill, to prove to yourself that you can do it. And then go a tiny bit per day and when you start getting withdrawal symptoms that are too extreme, go ahead and stop and hang out at that dosage for awhile and see if they clear up and you can start again.

I think as long as your goal is no meds, etc, it will feel overwhelming. But if your goal is, less meds than I took last week and see how it goes, it is a bit less scary? maybe?
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby yellowrose » Aug 10, 2012 5:09 pm

thanks silverelf, very sage advice.... just what i needed, i appreciate how you always take the time to answer cries for help, not just mine but other people too. its really appreciated.

i know i am a too prolific poster sometimes but i agree TIP is an awesome support!

to me risperdal is outwardly the worse drug than lithium....

i just spoke to an old icarus poster via skype

thanks for putting up with me, truly!

I have printed off the harm reduction guide

L
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby yellowrose » Aug 10, 2012 5:15 pm

its funny how when one dream comes closer you see other things you have neglected.

the thought of visiting japan has kept me going for so long. i dont know why japan. i love the language and the culture. this week a major broadcaster greenlit my documentary idea about music scenes in Japan. it means my dream of visiting japan to make a documentary is one step closer.

Also this week I made 50 pounds from my first proofreading client

Also my sense of possibility about other worlds has increased through my reading and searching

then today the TD seemed really bad and getting off the drugs seemed imperative.
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby yellowrose » Aug 10, 2012 5:25 pm

do i need a weighing scale
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby LilMissMoonshine » Aug 10, 2012 5:34 pm

http://beyondmeds.com/2008/05/14/water- ... ithdrawal/

This probably has been mentioned ten thousand times over all over this site but I was too lazy to cull it out of another old thread. I just think she gives the most detailed info about how to do a taper right and SLOW...and all the nuts and bolts stuff too, like what equipment you need to do a proper water titration (in this link).

I really think you can do it YR. Of course it's very scary, but I think you can do it. And we can help every step of the way...maybe not me because I'm not a withdrawal expert, but I'll be there to support you if/when you start having symptoms.
Tell me, what else should I have done?/Doesn't everything die at last, and too soon?/Tell me, what is it you plan to do/With your one wild and precious life?
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby ObjectsInMirrors » Aug 10, 2012 9:14 pm

Hey yellowrose, as you know I have been on my med reduction journey for about 15 weeks- the last 13 weeks reducing Risperdal. I had been on Risperdal for about ten months and it was extraordinarily effective for preveting my altered states- on risperdal i had no periods of what could be classified as a psychotic episode. I think silverelf is right and what you need is to go extremely slowly. There are tons of fears and what ifs, but you won't know until you give it another go. under my idiot psychiatrist's suggestion i tapered from 3 to 2.5 as my first taper. that was ridiculously fast. I held 2.5 for 3 weeks and then tapered by .25 and have been holding at 2.25 for the last ten weeks. It was way too much change at once and I think if my tapers had been smaller i could have lessened a lot of the extreme hell I went through. It was a lot of hell. It is only now at the tenth week of this dose that I have stabilized. I did have thoughts that were psychotic in nature and some visions. it was important for me to be curious about the visions, and to know what types of thoughts were psychotic and to be able to say "that's a psychotic thought" and then distract myself with something else. It's important to set up support as much as you can with other people and to make sure you are following any mad maps you have - for example that meant for me i would look at my map and remember that i'm feeling horrible i need to prioritize taking a shower and tidying up and getting enough sleep and these are some distractions i can try. I made sure to have my mad map made before i started my tapers. I am with silver elf maybe you just want to taper .1 or something. I am going to taper again soon and think i may taper .0625
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby yellowrose » Aug 10, 2012 9:20 pm

Hey OIM,

Thanks for that. I am a bit too tired for a long post but I appreciate the advice and support of everyone including lil miss, silverelf and street wise hercules. I feel I can see a way forward now.

L
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby radioinmyhead » Aug 11, 2012 1:12 am

:hugs: for everyone, esp yellowrose
Further the scientific progress, deeper the tunnel vision.
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby yellowrose » Aug 11, 2012 6:39 am

feeling a lot better today, thanks to everyone!

L
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby yellowrose » Oct 22, 2012 4:15 pm

Just re-visiting this topic. I was going to start a new thread but I feel that Ive spammed the boards a bit with too many threads.

Its three months on. Ive still not really decided about doing the taper. The psychiatrist wasn't much help.

I think I'm going to have to do something soon...

Im gonna need the support of you guys...

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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby SystemsApproach » Oct 22, 2012 5:21 pm

yellowrose wrote:I think I'm going to have to do something soon...


I think that people have given you really good advice on this thread, & people can be supportive on-line. I don't want to be negative about things.

We are all individuals, & have different circumstances.

I feel stuck & utterly dependent on medication, I went through 7 major episodes of psychosis; & have been on this last medication 14 years. I've done everything that I can. To successfully stop I feel that I'd need a lot of understanding. help & support.

There are a number of variables - yes, some people can & do get off medication; it does however seem critical to have a lot of support & help. Some manage without much support, but it makes things a lot harder.

I pick up from what you write that there isn't the understanding, help & support that you need in your own life as well? But I may be assuming.

I really do feel that for some of us these conditions are relational & environmental. That comprehensive help is needed in cases. I can't quite figure it all out. Some people I do feel need to get a grip, take responsibility, put some work into things, go into & work through stuff & they'd be fine - while with other people I'm not so sure. Put some people with apparent mental health conditions into a war zone or concentration camp; & I'd wager that what they were concerned with before would disappear in a lot of cases. But it wouldn't be in every case.

To my understanding we're on very complex & in depth territory. Ideally, & especially if psychiatric drugs weren't handed out so easily, & if mh services were fit for purpose - then very much I feel a vast majority would recover fully from all this 'stuff' medication free. I'd put it at 80%. However, there are some that I feel are best helped with a wise use of medications. Most people at many levels want to paint all these conditions as the same thing - & it's not all the same; very far from it. Some cases are far more severe than others.

Yes - get to as low a dose & as few of these drugs as possible. Get off them if you can. & maybe you are someone who can. Do some soul searching - only you know yourself better than anyone else. What have you really been like, how severe is your underlying condition honestly, have you done everything possible to resolve all these issues, made full use of every resource available?

When all is said & done it's only questions that you yourself can really honestly answer.

Without very different circumstances & a lot of help & support; I wouldn't risk another withdrawal from what I take. But that's me. If you feel confident in being able to do it - then formulate a plan & go for it. Make some kind of contingency, & be careful - & sometimes it's not easy. But the only way you'll ever know is by trying. If it all goes totally pear shaped; all that will likely happen is that you get put back on medication. At least you tired. I stopped the medication 5 times. First 2 times I lasted 4 years each time. Last 3 times I became incredibly ill. The last time I tried a 2 year tapered reduction - finally using a closed razor to shave bits off the pills & weighing it out on digital scales - I ended up virtually catatonic, with severe blackouts & weeks without any sleep. Never again for me; not without comprehensive & professional support.
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby Rev Andre » Nov 02, 2012 11:06 am

In my experience, the sooner you get them off the medication the better. Withdrawal symptoms are not possible. The body does not want the medication, it is poison. The feeling or experience the person has is detoxification. The immune system is drugged just like the brain with the medication. The moment the dosage is reduced or the drug taken away completely, the immune system kicks in to work against the medication (it to was drugged). That is why we have an immune system. The same goes for people that are “addicted” to drugs and alcohol, they have the same experiences.
As far as your patient feeling worse with acupuncture, that is completely normal. Remember that it will get worse before it gets better, because you are treating the cause not the symptom.
It is true that acupuncture aids western medicine, yet there are also many bonding agents and other ingredients in western medicine. The immune system will want to get rid of it. With acupuncture the energised qi will also work towards ridding the poisons in the meds.
The person I treated recently was in and out of Psychiatric hospitals and medication for three years. Three weeks NADA protocol treatment and he was ready to be discharged. This treatment took place whilst he was an in-patient. One month ago today he went home, took back his life and is completely off all medication. This was not what the psychiatrist recommended.
Healing and treatment should remain simple. The minute one starts to analyse or diagnose, it becomes complicated. Hence one then tries to be clever.
Look at the symptoms in the organs and then tread the cause.
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby SystemsApproach » Nov 02, 2012 11:44 am

Rev Andre wrote:Remember that it will get worse before it gets better, because you are treating the cause not the symptom.


What would you recommend for someone that stops sleeping (for weeks on end), goes floridly psychotic, near catatonic & totally delusional; when stopping medication?
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby werehorse » Nov 02, 2012 4:35 pm

Hi yellowrose, I came off amisulpride back in the summer. I did it over about a fortnight, so abruptly and not to be recommended. But I became obsessed by the feeling that it was poison and had to get it out my body.

I had some headaches and sickness but I soon started to feel a lot better. I lost the weight I'd gained and felt less sluggish and bloated. I felt more "embodied" and more like "myself." And I began to discover anger about the way mental health services have treated me over the last six years. I cleaned and organised my house, I started showering regularly, life was good.

But now I am severly hypomanic. I don't know whether it is anything to do with the med withdrawal because amisulpride didn't really seem to have much effect on my moods anyway. And I suspect it's a seasonal thing for me because it happened last year also, and I WAS on amisulpride then. So I am back on an anti-pyschotic - quetiapine this time, and it is having no effect on me whatsoever, good or bad.

I suspect I may be one of the ones that needs to be on meds for life. That's not what I'd choose, but I can't see a way to come off them right now. I don't have any psychological issues so there doesn't seem to be anything left to heal.

Sorry, I'm sure this doesn't help you much, I just wanted to share my experience.
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Re: Harm Reduction Withdrawal - Scared of Taking the Plunge

Postby yellowrose » Nov 02, 2012 8:36 pm

Thanks werehorse.... I am unsure of my direction at the moment but its good to hear your story...it sounds pretty realistic to me...is the hypomania bothering you?

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